GSMArena's 808 PureView Blind Test
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  1. #1
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    GSMArena's 808 PureView Blind Test

    Nokia 808 PureView blind test: The sum of all pixels - GSMArena.com

    So let's play the game over here as well..
    What are your guesses?
    (Try to guess without reading my own analysis)

    Mine:
    A: N8
    B: GSIII
    C: One X
    D: IP4s
    E: 808 PureView
    F: Olympus E-PL2

    Reasoning:

    D is very easy to guess due to the narrow field of view.. The iP4s features a 35mm equivalent lens, and hence it's narrower than all others who max at 28 mm..
    As to the quality, it's pretty good.. Contrast is pushed a bit though and the brightness level as well..

    C is the poorest by far.. Much lower detail resolved than any other in the competition.. Way too high over-sharpening and noise as well.. HTC's One X even with its released samples from HTC didn't impress, so this must be it..

    A and B are very close in detail.. But dynamic range obviously sets them apart.. Also B is a bit over-processed (specially sharpening) compared to A which is more on the neutral level..
    Hence: A is N8, and B is SGIII..
    Note here that the N8 is downsampled to 8MP! There should be some considerable quality lost in the process.

    E & F resolve by far the best detail and best noise levels.. Obviously due to better optics and bigger sensors.
    So these two are the 808 and the Olympus..
    The big factor that set them apart is the bad and obvious geometrical distortion: Open both E & F in separate tabs.. Don't zoom just switch between them and you'll notice that F changes the scaling in the middle of the scene.. Everything gets squeezed together.. That's due to the average quality of the zoom lens used.. Obviously no prime lens was used with the Olympus..

    Another factor is the warm colors used by Olympus rather than the neutral approach.. We know Nokia always take the neutral approach and already seen 808's sample photos..

    Other than that, F has a bit better contrast and dynamic range.. While E has better color rendering and better noise levels..

    E also suffers some out-focus areas in the photo.. But insignificant compared to the total area and specially considering such diverse landscape photo..

    Who's the winner? The PureView 808 obviously..

    Note that the Olymopus features a Four Thirds sensor.. We're talking real business here!! That's a 600€ mirrorless camera.. In same class the Nex-5..
    I can't tell though why GSMArena really went for the Olympus and not used a Sony Nex instead!! Nex cameras are considered the best in their category.. Or used a Nikon 1-series for instance..

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  4. #2
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    The missus has just upgraded from a NEX-C3 to the NEX-7. Even the NEX-C3 makes stunning pictures - low-light images are amazingly noise-free. Not had a proper fiddle with the NEX-7 yet though, can't get it off her

    What are the chances of Nokia licensing their PureView technology for use on on other manufacturers phones?

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    Nokia Guru NZtechfreak's Avatar
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    The problem with your post False Morel is that I can't find anything to disagree with or say that you haven't covered, maybe next time get something deliberately wrong to encourage replies
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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHotepUK View Post
    What are the chances of Nokia licensing their PureView technology for use on on other manufacturers phones?
    I would say zero, unless they want to self-destruct even faster than in Elop's wildest dreams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93tid View Post
    I would say zero, unless they want to self-destruct even faster than in Elop's wildest dreams.
    Do you think? From my perspective, the chances of me buying an 808 or Windows Phone with PureView are precisely zero. No money to Nokia.

    However, I'd happily pay a premium to get Pureview on an SGS4 or HTC Two X or whatever - license money to Nokia.

    Granted, there will be a competitive advantage to Nokia for Windows Phones + Pureview, but is it really enough to sway normal phone users, most of which already find the cameras in their iPhone 4s/SGSx/HTCs more than adequate?

    Better to have a small cut of a huge pie, than have all of a tiny pie?

    Also, imagine what Pureview could do in a compact camera ... licensed to Canon or Nikon with their quality zoom lenses & handling expertise, surely that would blow away the competition in the digicam market?

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    PureView is the last remaining thing that differentiates Nokia from any other handset maker. I think MS would rather keep it for themselves.
    "Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."

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    Quote Originally Posted by 93tid View Post
    PureView is the last remaining thing that differentiates Nokia from any other handset maker. I think MS would rather keep it for themselves.
    Freudian slip? Did you mean Nokia would keep it?

    I see Nokia have said they are keeping the Scalado technology to themselves, and won't be licensing it to other Windows Phone manufacturers (though RIM & HTC already have rights to use it on non-Windows Phone devices). I guess the same will apply to Pureview, which is a shame because before you know it Sony will have developed equivalent technology, combined it with their Exmoor & backlight technology, and will license the hell out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHotepUK View Post
    Freudian slip? Did you mean Nokia would keep it?
    No, I meant MS. I can't see Nokia realistically surviving for more than a year tops with this sort of financial performance. I don't see any other potential buyer except MS for what is left of their smartphone business. The likes of ZTE, Huawei, etc. can take their S40 business and game over. Samsung will not be interested in that segment and there's not much left of Nokia's smartphone division to be of interest or of threat to them.
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    Nokia 808 PureView: Low-light performance examined - GSMArena.com

    Low light photos. That poor SGSIII...

    When is the 808 section gonna open up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Tran View Post
    Nokia 808 PureView: Low-light performance examined - GSMArena.com

    Low light photos. That poor SGSIII...

    When is the 808 section gonna open up?
    Why that poor SGSIII?

    It's low light was rather impressive in those shots for what it is, obviously compared to the 808 and the standalones it won't measure up. To put it's results in perspective I think it only serves to illustrate the vast step up that the Pureview is from basically all other smartphones (even including the N8, which they didn't include in that comparison), rather than how poor the SIII is. I don't the intention was ever to try and show it as a challenger to any of the others, just an example of what one of the better 'normal' smartphone cameras is capable of in comparison.
    Last edited by NZtechfreak; 06-22-2012 at 09:20 AM.
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    Nokia Guru NZtechfreak's Avatar
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    I too am curious about when/if an 808 section will be going up? Get mine in two days time, would be nice to have someplace to call home and come and discuss it with other users

    Getting it for 379 british pounds equivalent, seems decent compared to projected retail?
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    How did you manage that? It's £500 in the UK from Amazon.
    "Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."

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    Yeah, at that price I might give it some consideration, but at £500 (even with Quidco discounts etc.) it's just crazy, even if it could resolve Martians on the surface of Mars.

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    Full review by GSMArena:

    The Nokia 808 PureView is the best cameraphone ever made. End of story.
    The camera is of course the single most prominent feature of the 808 - both in terms of physical appearance and level of interest. It beats every other phone camera at still photography and the flexibility offered by the camcorder is unmatched. And don't forget the zoom - the zoom alone is reason enough to want to buy one.
    Still, back in the day, the Nokia N8 sold 4 million units in under a year, so it's not impossible for the 808 PureView become one of the company's bestsellers, even with all those Lumias around. The Nokia 808 PureView is a unique device, one that has virtually no alternative.
    Nokia 808 PureView review: Photo Finnish - GSMArena.com

    I'm impressed!

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  22. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHotepUK View Post
    Yeah, at that price I might give it some consideration, but at £500 (even with Quidco discounts etc.) it's just crazy, even if it could resolve Martians on the surface of Mars.
    No Quidco discounts for purchases from Amazon.
    "Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic."

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  23. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93tid View Post
    How did you manage that? It's £500 in the UK from Amazon.
    I have a contact with buyers in India and Asia who brings in Nokia handsets, very small markup and I think no customs duties etc.
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    I guess the further west the phone travels, the more expensive it gets!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post
    I have a contact with buyers in India and Asia who brings in Nokia handsets, very small markup and I think no customs duties etc.
    If you could get another in by Wed,I would pay you cash for one..I just canceled my order due to the delays

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    Quote Originally Posted by cambo View Post
    If you could get another in by Wed,I would pay you cash for one..I just canceled my order due to the delays
    You mean next Wednesday, rather than today I take it? If so I will ask him to get you one when I see him tonight to get mine PM your email address so I can pass it to him for you guys to discuss.
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    Niice! Got mine now, been playing around with setting it up a bit, more thoughts to come...
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    First question - can you put a polariser filter on it ?

    Seriously, looking forward to your review.


    Quote Originally Posted by 93tid View Post
    No Quidco discounts for purchases from Amazon.
    Quidco don't do Amazon discounts directly, but sometimes they do a 5% discount on Amazon gift vouchers, so you buy the vouchers at 5% off, then use them on Amazon yourself, rather than give them away. It's a bit of a faff, but if you know you are going to be buying something it's worth stocking up with the vouchers. You can always give them away as presents at Xmas if you don't use them (they last a year).
    Last edited by BubbaHotepUK; 06-27-2012 at 12:54 PM.

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    So far camera is amazing, everything else less so. Replaced stock browser with Opera Mobile, and stock keyboard with Swype, and found good RSS reader in gNewsReader. What other apps are people using to shore up the very weak stock apps?

    Will let you all know in about 5 hours whether my 64GB card is working in this, the media scanner is running at present and is incredibly slow. Any better music apps available, particularly ones that support FLAC?
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    Ah, the media scanner - that old chestnut! A 16Gb microSD card loaded with music was an overnight job for my N8.

    The Verge has a good review up - kind of what I was expecting:

    Nokia 808 PureView review | The Verge

    Depressing to see they still haven't fixed that bug where you can't unlock the phone when a call comes in - that was the final straw that made me sell my N8. No point in having the best phone reception in the business, if you can't actually answer the call!

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    Yeah, the OS is truly, truly horrific. Anyone who stays with Symbian seriously needs to reflect on their lives, and whether any camera is worth having such an awful user experience basically everywhere else (this camera is incredible, and still not worth it in my eyes, although as a companion handset for concerts and such like I may hold onto it).

    Can now confirm that 64Gb card is working though
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    Is there anything that may be improved within the O/S or do you reckon it'll always be so awful?
    I can't imagine Nokia spending too much time on updates..

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    Quote Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post
    Yeah, the OS is truly, truly horrific. Anyone who stays with Symbian seriously needs to reflect on their lives, and whether any camera is worth having such an awful user experience basically everywhere else (this camera is incredible, and still not worth it in my eyes, although as a companion handset for concerts and such like I may hold onto it)
    When you say the OS is truly horrific, in what sense? Could you elaborate?

    You mentioned it's an awful user experience everywhere else.....regarding what exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NZtechfreak View Post
    Yeah, the OS is truly, truly horrific. Anyone who stays with Symbian seriously needs to reflect on their lives, and whether any camera is worth having such an awful user experience basically everywhere else (this camera is incredible, and still not worth it in my eyes, although as a companion handset for concerts and such like I may hold onto it).

    Can now confirm that 64Gb card is working though
    i was like that when i went from my sgs2 to a n8 again mate i lasted about a week and was like the camera is good but iam just missing out on so much more as a user of mobile tech by using the n8 i may was well buy a digi cam and carry an sgs2 and get the best of both

    if you just use your phone for simple music playback , camera , phone calls , sms then the n8/808 will be great but if you use it for anything more intensive then you get a much better user experience with android/ios etc etc

    ---------- Post added at 09:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by markyboy View Post
    Is there anything that may be improved within the O/S or do you reckon it'll always be so awful?
    I can't imagine Nokia spending too much time on updates..
    personally i wouldnt expect much marky and thats the reason i said youd be better off with your iphone and a nice camera (what youve got now)

    3rd party support will be extremley weak and nokias own support wont be great with windows 8 on the horizon , there is no way the o/s will get a mega overhaul on the 808 , defo some bug fixes and maybe a few mre stock apps as they come out of beta labs but nothing drastic mate

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    That what I suspected to be honest. Also the issue is not only that they won't update it much, but also when they do update they tend to leave bits from the previous version out, which is incredibly annoying!
    I've read the first few parts of the AAS review and to be honest I'm not exactly blown away by the samples that he's captured.
    I've no doubt that the pureview system is revolutionary, but from what I can gather, it only really comes into its own in low light conditions. In bright conditions I reckon you'd be just as well off with an iPhone, S3 etc.
    I'm not sure I'd be able to put up with Symbian again, especially given the anticipated support from 3rd party developers. Maybe if the price comes down I'll reconsider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSuper View Post
    When you say the OS is truly horrific, in what sense? Could you elaborate?

    You mentioned it's an awful user experience everywhere else.....regarding what exactly?
    Regarding almost everything! The browser is utterly dreadful (even if you abstract your consideration to exclude the low resolution, and only focus on rendering/perfomance). The keyboard is shockingly bad, Swype is a bit of an improvement but is very buggy with the SMS app and also very slow (never used a version of Swype as poor as this). Media scanner painfully slow. App installation happens in the foreground and sometimes requires a restart. In the brief play I've had with social media it isn't a patch on whats available iOS/Android/WP.

    Good things: build quality seems good, really like the grippy material on the casing, if you can forgive the horrible screen resolution and PPI with it stretched to 4inches the display itself otherwise has nice display characteristics being CBD, the camera is amazing, offline maps are nice to have (although in Android and iOS this is also happening now/soon, so not as much a differentiator as it was before), it works with my 64GB card, and did I mention the camera is amazing?
    N95 owner since April '07
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    As Markyboy inferred, there is a real problem in the digital imaging market for all companies, because camera phones are now 'good enough' for most ordinary use cases, plus they have the advantage of apps to do funky stuff with the camera & images (though I'm sick to the back teeth of Instagram images, tbh). However, if you want a laugh, download 'Zombie Booth' or 'Fat Booth' from the Android market (free) or App Store and take mugshot of yourself or your mates.

    What Nokia have produced is a a superbly specced imaging device that will appeal to enthusiast photographers, but doesn't really give the mass market consumer much extra, and doesn't have an imaging ecosystem to back it up. Putting Symbian on it is the death-knell. Surely they could have at least used Meego if Windows Phone isn't up to the job yet. An N9 + 64Gb + PureView would be a no brainer for a gadget nerd like me, but I can't stomach going back to Symbian, especially at that price.

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    They would make vastly more money letting others use the tech. This will be proved in 808 sales.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHotepUK View Post
    Surely they could have at least used Meego if Windows Phone isn't up to the job yet. An N9 + 64Gb + PureView would be a no brainer for a gadget nerd like me, but I can't stomach going back to Symbian, especially at that price.
    Porting it to MeeGo takes the same time to port it to WP. No difference here.

    As to the general consumer, with the right marketing and advertising, Nokia could make PureView as a trending tech in the market.

    And then for you, specs are all important as the general consumer will always look for the fastest and biggest and highest (think SoCs), but when it comes to a revolutionaty camera which deliver same quality on par with a mirrorless high-end camera it won't be of any significance on the market.

    I bet my whole fortune had Samsung made this technology some over here would have been all the over the place saying Samsung are on a roll, simply unstoppable, and there would have been no way to stop the Galaxy invasion then!

    Put PureView on a Nokia WP8 device which will be specced the same compared to the Galaxy, it won't be enough for Nokia even to survive!
    Way to go..

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    Quote Originally Posted by False Morel View Post
    And then for you, specs are all important as the general consumer will always look for the fastest and biggest and highest (think SoCs), but when it comes to a revolutionaty camera which deliver same quality on par with a mirrorless high-end camera it won't be of any significance on the market.

    I bet my whole fortune had Samsung made this technology some over here would have been all the over the place saying Samsung are on a roll, simply unstoppable, and there would have been no way to stop the Galaxy invasion then!

    Put PureView on a Nokia WP8 device which will be specced the same compared to the Galaxy, it won't be enough for Nokia even to survive!
    Way to go..
    no one has really put the pureview tech down infact ive heard many good thing about it and have been tempted to buy one myself , many have just said that with it running symbian and after how nokia killed symbian youd be better off with phone running android/ios/windows and a decent digital camera thats all , that way you get a top smartphone experience and a top digi cam experience witout sacrafices

    no one has said it has no significance , of course it does its amazing tech , however many feels its wasted on symbian as nokia have killed it!! as bubba said it might have been better to make a meego device with this tech built in to trial it rather then symbian but both o/s have been killed so it doest really matter does it

    also no one is saying that a windows 8 device with pureview wont do well , id be interested as long as windows 8 covers 99% of the bases that ios and android do , micro sd support , future proofed spec for 1-2 years , great devoloper support , full media functions like dlna and web streaming ie if it fits in with my smartphone needs and useages

    i think your forgetting most of us were happy nokia users a short while back mate , id happily be using a nokia phone now if there was one that matched the oposistion in terms of user experience and features and spec for my money but in all honestly there isnt is there -- lumia or sgs2 id have the sgs2 and 808 or sgs2 id have the sgs2 that without even counting the sgs3 lol :-) the simple fact is nokia havent been good enough over the last few years and there are now better options on the market and better value handsets to get with your hard earned money

    infact for me now the only advantage that nokia has over samsung and htc etc in the wndows 8 eco system is their pureview tech however it seems from what iam reading that the cpu/gpu on the s4 chipset supports up to 20mp which in terms would mean that the pureview wont be as good as the symbian version (only half as good maybe)

    lets not also forget that we appreciate good cameras (the best cameras) but the ''general consumer'' as you call them have been happy with ''decent enough'' cameras for ages now and some would still argue that the iphone 4 camera is better then the n8 because the pics are more pleasing to the eye due to colours being boosted and the fact that they dont zoom into pixel level -- iam not saying that by the way i know the n8 camera is better then the iphone4 camera but how many times have you heard people say that the over saturated picture looks better etc i know ive read it 100s if not 1000s of times

    lets face it though if samsung or apple did build pureview tech they wouldnt release it half assed like nokia have and more people would understand it etc

    the post i quoted actually seems like it was meant to antagonise samsung users like we are fanboys of samsung or something but fact is they are getting a lot right at the minute and nokia arent so when people put nokia down and speak highly of samsung it isnt because they/we are fanboys of samsung it is because they are getting so much right at the minute its hard to put them down really where as nokia seem to make a new mistake everyday that makes people scratch their heads all over the world from buisness strategists to general mobile phone users

    yes windows 8 and the pureview tech could be great but thats all we have at the minute a ''could be'' we dont even know how long before we see pureview tech in a windows phone or if it will be as potent as the one in the 808 do we?? if it is as potent as the 808n one then it could take a while for nokia to figure out how to get the chipset to support 40mp couldnt it?? there are so many things to awnswer it would just be silly to get to excited after all how many times have we seen nokia make things sound awesome , look the bees knees in videos and presentations then fail to deliver or **** it up with things like bad build quality etc etc
    Last edited by buxz777; 06-28-2012 at 03:19 PM.

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    Yeah, I object to being brushed as a Samsung fanboy. If I could by a Nokia phone as good as my SGS2, I would buy it tomorrow. But I can't - that's the fact of the matter. If the HTC One X had removable storage & battery, that would be my next phone, not the SGS3 (which is looking like an inevitability right now, unless the delayed Huawei quad-core is a stunner, & cheaper).

    As I've said elsewhere, I hope Nokia get Pureview onto WP8 sooner rather than later, as the competition won't be that far behind. Have you seen that Sony have invested $1 billion dollars to convert their CCD manufacturing plant to churn out their stacked CMOS sensors for smartphones? Given the state of Sony's finances, they must be expecting big sales from them or they wouldn't be making that investment.

    But FM, I stand by my point - people seem pretty happy with their phone cameras, and I don't think a single stand-out feature is good enough for people to switch phones because of this. PureView will only become a differentiator for the majority of people when it is matched with a well rounded phone that compares well with the competition in most areas. As it is, it only appeals to camera fans, and even many of those will be put off by it being hosted on Symbian.

    I think the real proof is that networks in the UK are refusing to take the 808 on contract. It's just too much of a dead end in this package, even though the stunning camera technology is sure to be ubiquitous in 18 months time (hopefully via Nokia, but maybe a competitor).

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    @ Buxz

    I'm not claiming that a Lumia 900 is better than a GSIII or even a GSII!!

    We are talking about what's coming!
    The thing is you are all playing Nokia down, saying that they won't succeed with WP8 because HTC and Samsung will do better.

    If the coming Nokia flagship running WP8, features a 4.3"+ CBD AMOLED, 720p, NFC, latest qualcomm (the upgrade to the current S4), SD card, and add to it a stunning unibody design and PureView and you still think this won't be enough for Nokia to survive..

    [QUOTE=BubbaHotepUK;319796]PureView will only become a differentiator for the majority of people when it is matched with a well rounded phone that compares well with the competition in most areas.

    Excellent.. That's what I was saying and you all didn't agree in the other thread. What changed now?!

    A Nokia WP8 flagship specced same as GSIII for instance, plus unique design, plus PureView, plus some other minor stuff in terms of exclusive apps and it won't be enough for Nokia to lead the WP ecosystem even, let alone rival the iPhone or the Galaxy?! How is that? Care to explain?

    And the thing you fail to explain, what would Samsung have over Nokia in producing a WP8 flagship??

    As it is, it only appeals to camera fans, and even many of those will be put off by it being hosted on Symbian.

    I think the real proof is that networks in the UK are refusing to take the 808 on contract. It's just too much of a dead end in this package, even though the stunning camera technology is sure to be ubiquitous in 18 months time (hopefully via Nokia, but maybe a competitor).
    Nokia themselves admitted the 808 is just to test the market, and help develop the PureView technology for later mass volume production..
    We already discussed the 808 and we all know it won't sell! Same as we know the Lumia 900 and Lumia 800 are not enough and just first shots giving hints of what is coming.. Coming Q4 2012 things will start to be different.. The things you want Nokia to do and deliver, will only be possible in Q4 with WP8.. Let's wait and see..

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    that does sound like a very nice phone and one id like to try for sure if we see it , the thing is how soon would we see a nokia phone like that false mate (ps id like 64gb mass memory and micro sd support as well please or is that being greedy)

    theres no doubting there is great potential there with windows platform , zune , xbox , office suites etc etc no one has ever doubted that dude i even said back when it all kicked off that it could be quite exciting and good as i use some of microsoft services as do my friends who are big gamers , i can see the potential please dont get me wrong

    i think the thing we are getting at is -- even if nokia had all the windows share to themseleves with windows 8 would that be enough to keep them going , will enough android and ios users make the switch to make windows a big enough platform in the mobile world (not laptops not smart tvs and tablets mobile smartphones only) for nokia to make enough bread and butter to survive

    thats without samsung and htc having their share of the pie which will eat into nokias , i dont remember saying nokia wouldnt top the windows platform they may well do , but with others running on the same hardware apart from pureview then nokia could well see others eating a fair share of windows profits

    as for me telling you what samsung would do better to make people buy their windows phones well they already have a better brand name then nokia these days in many countries , peope have samsung tvs , samsung laptops , mp3 players , bluetooth kits , cameras , etc etc people tend to have brand loyalty perhaps they dont have to do much better then nokia at all apart from get a windows 8 device out there that is a good all rounder and recieved well from the media and back to my point ive said before all nokia really have over other manufactuers is pureview and thats never been done on microsofts platform so lets not get carried away dude it might not work for over a year , we may even see nokias 1st windows 8 phone flagship without pureview then what would make that stand out from say a windows 8 samsung or htc?? not much really because as ive said before it will be hard to be different while microsoft limit what hardware their o/s goes on

    as weve already discussed and bubba has mentioned , others are investing into camera tech , htc have upped their game ok it wasnt the best effort but it was better and we all know sony have some really good camera tech out there and make camera modules for samsung , apple and more (if not present have done before and a lot of phones have had sony modules) even if the camera isnt pureview if it takes good pictures and people are happy with them then thats all that matters to the consumer i doubt hardly and camera users zoom into pixel level like we do so a camera as good as the n8/iphone/sgs3 etc etc will more then satisfy most people

    its all guess work at the minute from all of us mate its great your optimistic but after all the mistakes nokia have made over the last few years and the time this switchover is taking with no direct upgrade path from symbian and stuff and nokia customers leaving left right and centre can you not just understand why some of us are a bit more negative

    like i said before we are all nokia lovers at heart , you forget that mate , me and bubba have both said if nokia had a phone out that could match the sgs2/sgs3 for the same price in terms of spec and user experience then we would probably no doubt own it , the only reason people like me and bubba started using android is because it finally caught up and offered us the most for our money and suited our needs best , i hated android when it was on 1.6 and early 2 version with the nexus but nokia stalled and android and ios caught up

    now lets hope nokia and windows can do it but it wont be easy because people are happy with what they have at the minute and to get them to swap to windows it will have to be mega good and also if they do switch to windows nokia have to have the best handset to make people buy them and not samsung or htc

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    In addition to what buxz777 said, there is still this tremendous brand recognition problem both Nokia and Microsoft have to get over.

    As I've said before, Microsoft + Nokia together doesn't make for a compelling argument for Joe Punter. The fact that Windows Phone is the easiest mobile OS to use, that Nokia made a beautiful design for the Lumia 800 etc. isn't going to sway him easily when they roll-out the devices which seem like a year or two behind the competition in other respects.

    There's quite simple evidence for this too. HTC have made Windows Phones that are virtually identical to their Android counterparts - yet the Windows phones have bombed whereas the Android phones have been successful. Why is that? People (rightly or wrongly) trust Google more than Microsoft.

    Windows Phone has no USP plus a brand negative. Nokia Lumia + Pureview will have one USP + 2 brand negatives.

    That is the problem - time will tell if they can turn it around.
    Last edited by BubbaHotepUK; 06-29-2012 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHotepUK View Post
    In addition to what buxz777 said, there is still this tremendous brand recognition problem both Nokia and Microsoft have to get over.

    As I've said before, Microsoft + Nokia together doesn't make for a compelling argument for Joe Punter. The fact that Windows Phone is the easiest mobile OS to use, that Nokia made a beautiful design for the Lumia 800 etc. isn't going to sway him easily when they roll-out the devices which seem like a year or two behind the competition in other respects.

    There's quite simple evidence for this too. HTC have made Windows Phones that are virtually identical to their Android counterparts - yet the Windows phones have bombed whereas the Android phones have been successful. Why is that? People (rightly or wrongly) trust Google more than Microsoft.

    Windows Phone has no USP plus a brand negative. Nokia Lumia + Pureview will have one USP + 2 brand negatives.

    That is the problem - time will tell if they can turn it around.
    Samsung used to be a second tier brand for more than a decade! How did they turn this around and in what time?!

    Not to mentione that Microsoft and Windows are not a bad brand!! Specially when people know that WP8 is actually Windows on a phone! It is Windows 8 RT on a phone with a slightly different UI on top to fit it on a small screen..

    The trick for the brand name is the media.. The moment the media and the with them the salesmen rank a Nokia flagship at the top or on the same level of the iPhone and Galaxy then this would do it..
    And for that to happen Nokia need to make such a phone. Which is the point we are debating: Can Nokia make such a phone with WP8?

    The current Lumia line-up is just a hint.. All media rated them good and high but at the end the verdict is always that they're underspecced and missing certain functionality that is available on the iPhone and Android..

    Think Galaxy S and Galaxy SII and the huge step for Samsung and all other Android OEMs from the 2010 batch to the 2011 one.. Nokia are now at the same step.
    A complete year late of course.. But that's why the Lumias 800 and 900 won't sell as much as the first Desire and Galaxy sold..

    However, with WP8, it seems MS and Nokia won't be held one year back still, they'll leap frog to catch with the GSIII and coming iPhone in one jump.. And if Nokia manages to import the PureView by this year, they really have a big chance to make a full comeback then..

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    I wonder if the 808 will get this app?

    http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/...camera-extras/

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    Wow, Amazon UK have sold out of all of their stock for Nokia 808 Pureview in black and white and it only went on sale yesterday! That was quick!

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    Photoradar has an in depth look at the 808 camera here - they aren't overwhelmed despite the 'impressive' image quality. I'm amazed you don't get aperture & shutter priority control - though surely this could be fixed with a firmware update.

    In-depth look at the Nokia Pureview 808's camera: Verdict | News | TechRadar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHotepUK View Post
    Photoradar has an in depth look at the 808 camera here - they aren't overwhelmed despite the 'impressive' image quality. I'm amazed you don't get aperture & shutter priority control - though surely this could be fixed with a firmware update.

    In-depth look at the Nokia Pureview 808's camera: Verdict | News | TechRadar
    I don't think you would get aperture control as the 808 has a fixed aperture? I could be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSuper View Post
    Wow, Amazon UK have sold out of all of their stock for Nokia 808 Pureview in black and white and it only went on sale yesterday! That was quick!
    And all that with a horrific dead-end OS. I am ready to bet that the 808 will still outsell the total of Lumias in Q3 exactly like the N9 did, despite zero support from Nokia and the networks. So many people obviously are very dumb and need to seriously reflect on their lives, maybe even consider whether they should carry on living.

    It's such a comedy of Elop errors, every handset he killed upon release has become a hit and the product line on which Nokia's survival depends on is an utter flop. If he did it on purpose, he is one of the best CEOs ever. If he didn't, he should be jailed. Nokia's share price has already Elopped below the psychological barrier of USD 2.00 (that's Two US dollars) and Nokia's capitalisation at present equals their cash reserves. No company has ever survived such a collapse and I don't think Nokia will be the exception.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93tid View Post
    And all that with a horrific dead-end OS. I am ready to bet that the 808 will still outsell the total of Lumias in Q3 exactly like the N9 did, despite zero support from Nokia and the networks. So many people obviously are very dumb and need to seriously reflect on their lives, maybe even consider whether they should carry on living.

    It's such a comedy of Elop errors, every handset he killed upon release has become a hit and the product line on which Nokia's survival depends on is an utter flop. If he did it on purpose, he is one of the best CEOs ever. If he didn't, he should be jailed. Nokia's share price has already Elopped below the psychological barrier of USD 2.00 (that's Two US dollars) and Nokia's capitalisation at present equals their cash reserves. No company has ever survived such a collapse and I don't think Nokia will be the exception.

    An Amazon email sent to customer regarding current situation:

    Our supplier has notified us that there is a delay obtaining stock. Delivery estimate has changed from 6th of July to "We need a little more time to provide you with a good estimate".
    I'm now completely baffled! Has Amazon sold out of all their stock that they initially had through their pre-orders or have they not had any stock to begin with from the very start, therefore nothing has been delivered to Amazon's UK warehouses whatsoever?

    No official comment from Amazon and no official comment from Nokia. This is an utter shambles! What a joke.

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    I don't think the issue is limited to Nokia, last year I tried to get my hands on an iPhone 4s and Vodafone made the most almighty hash of the preordering. In the end I gave up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by markyboy View Post
    I don't think you would get aperture control as the 808 has a fixed aperture? I could be wrong.
    If that is the case, it seriously limits the 808 as a genuine camera replacement, even in the compact market. Most compacts over £200 give some P/A/S/M modes.
    Of course, it would be cool if the Pureview sensor could be adapted use this fancy Lytro technology - where focusing & DOF is determined after the photo is taken, but I don't think we'll ever see that happen.

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    I've just found out that the aperture is fixed at f/2.4.
    That's interesting technology you mentioned there though, never heard of that before

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    Quote Originally Posted by markyboy View Post
    I've just found out that the aperture is fixed at f/2.4.
    That's interesting technology you mentioned there though, never heard of that before
    Lytro is a bit of genius lateral thinking. The current problem with it is that of resolution - as many photo receptor cells are modified to measure the incident light angles as there are RGB receptors.

    Of course, Pureview isn't short of resolution - put them together and theoretically you have got one awesome bit of technology which side steps most, if not all, of the issues with camera phones. Presumably there are major practical hurdles to prevent this being any easy mash-up though.

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